Copyright 2004 by M. Uli Kusterer Tue, 30 Dec 1969 07:58:58 GMT Comments on article blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs at Zathras.de http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm witness_dot_of_dot_teachtext_at_gmx_dot_net (M. Uli Kusterer) witness_dot_of_dot_teachtext_at_gmx_dot_net (M. Uli Kusterer) en-us http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment13 http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment13 Lane Roathe writes:
Don't have time to attempt any of these at the time, but I do like the database idea, as I too think that the current offerings "miss it" in comparison to ClarisWorks. I don't think it would be terribly difficult for a single programmer to create such an application. As long as you kept the v1.0 release focused on the very basics (but done right) I would think the risk to reward factor would be in the programmer's favor. If you were to allow the program to use a local sqlite or a remote mysql database I think the app would be very attractive.

Scott, love the idea of an iTunes for open source projects! While it's true that you can get some of that via the various open source sites out there (like sf.net, github, etc) having an iTunes style interface to all of them would really rock. I'll offer up a name ... "iCodes" :)

One thing I have found frustrating in keeping up with some of the open source projects I am interested in is that there are now numerous VCS programs out there that are popular, so I'm having to learn a lot of command line commands and often forget between times I update my copies. Also, if you have more than a few it gets tiresome to update each. So, if this iCodes app could allow you to "suscribe" to a project and would automatically checkout/clone to your local machine. If you want automatic updates you could subscribe to "codecasts" as you describe, although probably need a way to specify if you want daily updates, or only "release" updates (where release would ideally allow you to specify the type(s) of releases you are interested). This would require it to have basic functionality for all the supported VCS programs built in, but it would be pretty light; just initial repo checkouts/clones and then updates.

This program would be most useful if it could tie into the major open source project hosting sites automatically, so that projects could be included without having to have a project maintainer set it up specifically for iCodes.

As I envision it, this project would require a lot of work, but would be fricken' cool!
http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment12 http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment12 smorr writes:
I took a look at the comment by Scott -- and did a double take, thinking it was me and I just didn't remember writing it. :)

I have used WysiwygWebBuilder a fair bit and prefer it far above iWeb -- I just hate that it is windows only -- as it suffers from some windows like issues (kludgy interface at times) and crappy crappy crappy font rendering.

I have even broached to topic of a port to Pablo (the author) but he doesn't seem to be up for it. I think he (as a one man show as far as I can tell) has done an amazing job -- It is written mostly in C from my understanding (probably some MFC stuff -- yuck) but the actual footprint of the app is tiny for what it does.

Still I would love to see a port of it or a similar app built from scratch. It really fits that middle ground between bundled iWeb (underpowered) and Dreamweaver and other Wysiwyg apps that are overkill for most people. His price point is good too ($40) representing very good value.

@britt -- blocks is OK -- but it still is working inside the template.I try and try and try again to get my head into the template approach and everytime I come up frustrated that I can't do what I want easily.

Furthermore designing templates are tough... If only the RapidweaverFolks had a nice app for building templates.
http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment11 http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment11 Uli, I love reading your blog and enjoy just about all you have to say. So it is with much admiration and respect when I say that your database idea is crazy. I think a solo developer trying to out-compete Bento is more than slightly insane. I agree that Bento isn't perfect, but there are so many potentially great apps out there yet-to-be-written, it just seems crazy to invest the copious amount of time and resources in trying to compete with such a powerhouse like Bento.

But I'm not one to criticize without throwing out my own idea. What about an iTunes for open source projects? It could be a central searchable repository for open source code, with all the meta data clearly laid out (i.e. language written in, technologies/frameworks implemented, license type, #of lines, last modified, number of active contributors, reviews, rank, popularity etc.) You could subscribe to "codecasts" where updates would automatically be pushed into your folder, and rss of news feeds could be subscribed to. I realize that some of this can be found by visitning sourceforge, and googlecode etc. but it would be really cool to have it in one centralized app.
http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment10 http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment10 Uli Kusterer writes:
@ssp: As I mentioned above, FileMaker's UI just isn't usable enough. Also, FileMaker has complex scripting and formulas and standalone generation. Lots of semi-professional features that are desirable for advanced users. But what this database app should have is really the simplicity of a Lineform or iTunes, just for a database.

ClarisWorks' database module was (at least in spirit, if maybe not in actual code) based on FileMaker. It was simple enough. Updated with a slightly more intuitive UI (less modal panels, more Interface Builder-like drag'n droppable object libraries, plus guidelines to help with positioning), this would do wonders. And while Bento has all this on paper, the performance and the actual implementation just don't satisfy.
http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment9 http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment9 Umm... how 'bout blocks? (no affiliation; just a satisfied customer)

http://www.yourhead.com/blocks/
http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment8 http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment8 ssp writes:
1. I doubt that you'll get far enough with absolute positioning (unless you do an iWeb and render everything as an image, in which case you could just skip the HTML and upload an image). Even a seemingly trivial situation: a single box of content starting at the top of the page and a single box of footer at the bottom of the page is rather hard to get right once you allow things like boxes and the browser windows and the fonts used to have non-fixed heights. As absolutely positioned elements on a web page are 'out of touch' with the rest of the page, they are generally a bad tool for creating a page with elements that are supposed to interact with one another.

2. So what's wrong about a decade old Filemaker. It used to do the job rather well before they starting cramming all sorts of features in there. (Of course Cocoa developers will just create their data model in a CoreData project these days and voilà: database – now if only bindings didn't suck so badly…)
http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment7 http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment7 See also, C#
http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment6 http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment6 Matt writes:
I really think a fully absolutely positioned website generator is going to produce a whole new generation of Front Page-esque sites, that are going to look terrible on different computers... ie, all squeezed to the left on a widescreen monitor, or too wide on 4:3 monitors. I'm not sure what a simple Database would do to differentiate it from Access enough that it would be more usable, and yet not something that you can do in Excel... if one worked, I guess it could be OK, but I'm not sold on the idea at all.
http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment5 http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment5 Uli Kusterer writes:
@Scott: I'm kinda hoping that one of the existing apps sees this, realizes how easy it would be to get WYSIWYG positioning and implements it. I agree that another player in the market won't have it easy, but OTOH if you're good enough, second place next to iWeb will probably depend on whether you have free positioning like iWeb or not.
http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment4 http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment4 Uli Kusterer writes:
@ Rafael & Chuck: I'm kinda looking for something like FileMaker, yes. A simpler version, with a modern MacOS UI. Bento promised the right thing, but the delivery took most of the annoyances of FileMaker (the sluggishness, the horrible, horrible picking and mouse tracking).

Specialized apps are nice if there is one available for a particular use case, but I often find myself in situations where a simple database would be great.
http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment3 http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment3 Hasn't Bento fulfilled the "simple database" idea?
http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment2 http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment2 Uli

I so would love to see this as well -- Dare I say -- There is is an application on Windows (wysiwygWebBuilder -- http://www.wysiwygWebBuilder.com ) that does very much what you are looking at. And it is way more flexible than iweb. I have been thinking about how much it would be to a) port it -- assuming the developer was into it or b) just build something similar from scratch.

The only problem is market/demand -- iWeb (bundled on computers or part of a low cost high value bundle) satisfies the average user's demands to a degree -- SandVox and Rapidweaver are battling it out on the template approach (although the don't allow full flexibility -- they do the job quite well) and powerusers are just going to code that stuff by hand in anycase. (or use coda/ dreamweaver or other pro tool)

Still -- it is an itch to scratch is it not?
http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment1 http://www.zathras.de/angelweb/blog-software-ideas-up-for-grabs.htm#comment1 Rafael Bugajewski writes:
Either I don't understand your description for the second app or it is just what these clunky "database apps" like MS Access and FileMaker do today. I don't have any experience with both of them, but the UI isn't inviting. I tried Bento (which should be a "smaller and simpler" FileMaker), but I don't like its approach, too.

I like to have specialized apps for every distinct use case.